In response to yesterday's article which simply pointed out AOL's forced installation of the Viewpoint Media Player and advised users who wish to remove it how to do so without AOL automatically reinstalling it at the next login, I received the following from a Viewpoint representative:
Hi Doug. This is Jeff Katz from Viewpoint (VWPT). We noticed that you recently posted an article regarding AOL and Viewpoint, in which you erroneously claim that Viewpoint is Spyware.
- http://americandaily.com/article/12238,
- http://edeldoug.blogs.com/thoughts_rants_raves_and_/2006/03/aols_forced_ins.html,
- http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/12852.html
The Viewpoint Media Player is not Spyware. As I am sure you are aware, sometimes plug-ins, like Flash or Java, are required in order to view content on the web. Viewpoint is an enabling technology, providing advanced rich media graphics through our Viewpoint Media Player. Please note that Viewpoint Media Player does not collect any personally identifiable information about the user or its usage patterns.
I also wanted to point out that the quote from Paretologic is inaccurate and we are working with them to remedy this mis-information.
We strongly believe that there is a misunderstanding here. Viewpoint Technology has been reviewed by liutilities, hijackthis, Pestpatrol, Adaware, System Info, Ask Leo, Computer Cops, Webroot Spysweeper, Spybot Search & Destroy and others and has been determined not to be Spyware or Adware. We have also gotten certification from the BBB, TrustE, and TestPros.
Viewpoint is a publicly traded company (VWPT) and we understand that privacy is an extremely important issue. Therefore, we design and operate our technology and services with the protection of the users privacy in mind.
Viewpoint strives to enrich the internet experience of our users and will continue to promote and innovate next generation online experiences, without compromising our user’s safety, security, or privacy.
Thank you.
Jeffrey B. Katz
Viewpoint Product Marketing Manager
My response to him is as follows:
I stand by my article as written. I generated no "erroneous claims"… I simply quoted paretologic's classification of Viewpoint as spyware. Viewpoint IS, in fact, installed without users knowledge or consent, DOES track user activity, DOES use processor cycles, memory and bandwidth. Users SHOULD have to OPT IN to benefit from your purported "enhanced experience" rather than perform an exhausting search for ways to opt out.
My beef in the article was not with Viewpoint – it is with AOL for making it so difficult to be rid of Viewpoint if an AOL user WISHES to be rid of it. The process to eliminate the features which require Viewpoint to "enhance the experience" does work without disabling AOL's software entirely… but AOL hides this option behind a wall of secrecy. This cloak & dagger approach further enhances the image of "spyware".
Let us also remember that the "Classic" definition of spyware – collecting personal info and either selling it or using it for marketing or other more sinister purposes – is not a pure definition of the term any longer. "Spyware" has become a generic term encompassing adware, Trojans, RATs, Potentially Unwanted Programs etc. I personally prefer terms like "malware" for the malicious and "scumware" for the uninvited though innocuous.
The characterization as Spyware is not MINE. Paretologic (maker of Xoftspy – which I currently rate as one of my top 3 Anti-Spyware tools) currently lists Viewpoint as spyware. Xoftspy will identify and remove it as spyware. You claim their characterization is in error. That is between Viewpoint and Paretologic. They have yet to recant. Others classifying it as spyware or at least "potentially unwanted software" (PUP) include spywareinfo.com, computing.net, spyware.factexpert.com, vil.mcafeesecurity.com, neuber.com, etc.
To be fair, liutilities.com does seem defensive of Viewpoint.
You mentioned AskLeo. Leo himself, in his article both states that while not actually meeting the strictest definition of spyware (as you don't collect personally identifiable data), Viewpoint's practices DO ACT like spyware. To whit:
"They didn't ask for it. Viewpoint components are installed as a side effect of installing other software, most notably AOL and AOL Instant Messenger (AIM). The software claims to be "required", but I have a hard time understanding why I need yet another media player in order to chat with friends on AIM. The fact that Viewpoint is installed at all, and more importantly, how visible this fact is, is in the hands of these other packages. Personally, I would expect that a) Viewpoint would be optional, and as such b) I would be given a clear choice at setup time for these other software packages. Sadly that is not always the case, and Viewpoint can simply "appear", seemingly without warning.
They don't know why it's on their machine. As I just pointed out, I have no clue as to why I would need another media player in order to chat with my friends on AIM. The same is true for many packages that include Viewpoint software. Some clearly need the technology to deliver their functionality. But for others, Viewpoint is used only when certain features are used. If you never use those features, or never even think about those features even existing, the presence of an unexpected package such as Viewpoint is at best, confusing, and at worst quite distressing.
Their firewall is suddenly reporting that it's attempting to access the internet. I understand why this happens, and from a technical perspective, it's a good thing. Viewpoint, or more specifically viewmgr.exe, is checking for updates of the Viewpoint software. Many software packages now do this automatically as a way to ensure that as many of their users have the latest and most stable releases. The problem here is the cascading effect of the previous two points: you didn't ask for it, you don't know what it is, and all of a sudden it wants to access the internet? Of course that's going to raise concerns, as well it should.
So what's the answer?
In my opinion:
- Viewpoint, and the other companies that package Viewpoint software, need to do a much better job of educating users at install time about Viewpoint, what it is and why it's being installed.
- Viewpoint should be clearly made an optional install in almost all cases.
- Viewpoint should be easily uninstalled. (Their FAQ seems to indicate that it is, but user experiences as reflected in the comments on my viewmgr.exe article report varying degrees of success.)
- Consumers need to pay attention to what we're installing. In many cases packages like Viewpoint are called out on software installs and often are optional, if you'd only take the time to look. I, for one, rarely accept "default" installs for exactly this reason ... without looking, I don't know what I'm getting."
The bottom line is this. Viewpoint may not be wholly engulfed in the flames of the indisputably malware category… however their practices certainly smell like smoke. Viewpoint would do well to heed Leo's advice; especially if they are going to cite him as their defender.
That's the spirit! It's nice to see that some people take the time to present their concerns to Viewpoint directly.
I personally don't think that Viewpoint would gather personal information to sell it; that would land them in hot water, and would affect the people that depend on their technology, like Mr. Tzez (no offense). Nevertheless, Viewpoint Corp. really needs to reform their practice of running under people's noses. What's there to hide? From what Viewpoint asserts: nothing.... Similar software like Flash and Java aren't labeled as spyware, simply because they make themselves well-known. Well, let's hope that Viewpoint actually reads your reply and doesn't treat you like chopped liver.
Posted by: Dameon Li | March 11, 2006 at 08:56 PM
If Viewpoint offers something useful, they should make it VISIBLE and OPTIONAL. If it truly is DESIRABLE users will want it.
I didn't say whether users should want it or not... I told people who want to get rid of it, HOW TO - and to prevent its unwanted reinstallation. That's all.
As to whether Viewpoint is a maligned and misunderstood useful software, or one thats stealthy practices make it suspect, I'll simply direct you to a dialog that I myself never participated in. Read and decide for yourself!
http://castlecops.com/posts77740-0.html
Posted by: edeldoug | March 12, 2006 at 08:08 AM
Maybe my focus was a bit confusing in my previous post. I was merely agreeing to your actions on bringing the matter to Viewpoint, although I may have sounded a bit sarcastic. My apologies...
Viewpoint software does have its use, but the fact that it sends usage data and checks for updates w/o permission raises suspicion. This is why I agree with those who choose to tell Viewpoint about their concerns, so they may eventually change those features. But to tell you the truth, I wouldn't be surprised if VMP was full-fledged spyware. At this time, I'm not convinced on EXACTLY what information VMP sends.
Posted by: Dameon Li | March 13, 2006 at 12:57 AM
The vmp sends nothing more than a heart beat to the viewpoint servers. Just checks to see if there are any new updates available when your computer is idol.
A step further:
If you are viewing a 3d demonstration it CAN keep track of how many times it was viewed, what features within the demo were viewed most, if it is a car you are looking at it CAN log what color was viewed, really basic stuff.
A viewpoint log would be a string that looked something like this: "7,3432,09,1,blk". Exactly like what a cookie does. No information about you is ever loged. They are a very responsible company. I would be much more worried about shopping online at some not fortune 500 retailer which we are all doing on a regular basis. What info are they collecting? Who is overseeing them?
The viewpoint media player is the elite solution for rendering graphics. It just became free last year so expect to see a lot more of it.
Honda uses them to showcase every car
http://automobiles.honda.com/models/
As for uninstalling it and controlling the vmp. It is right in your control panel and in you add delete programs sections. You can fully control the settings in control panel.
Regarding autoupdate. Do not disregard the benefits. What is more annoying than a pop up window saying "you have new updates would you like to install them now"? No just do it when I am not using the computer. Viewpoint does it when the computer is idol.
I hope adobe starts doing this soon with flash player and adobe reader. I am tired of updating those 2 apps. Also, that is a key reason why flash is so well known among end users. They constantly ask you to update. They were asking you from before the spyware craze. If they opened their doors in 2003 there would be discussion just like this going on about flash. Viewpoint has been around just as long and till this day people are still confused about them. I guess the more advanced 2nd generation autoupdate feature didn't work in their favor afterall. I believe that if Viewpoint had a crystal ball back in 1996 they would have chosen to do it otherwise. I ONLY say that because of the 2004 adware hysteria. If they knew the scarlet letter would be hung on them for even a second they would have done otherwise.
Best,
Michael
PS> The Aol thing is tricky. It requires the vmp to work properly that is why it is always trying to install it. In this case Aol should have the on off switch not viewpoint.
Posted by: Michael Tzez | March 16, 2006 at 12:44 AM
Viewpoint IS headed down the ADWARE path. Info from just last November indicates their direction for 2006. While Viewpoint takes a strict definition of Spyware, the common usage of the term INCLUDES Adware
http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3561546
Posted by: edeldoug | March 17, 2006 at 05:42 AM